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Can we get a YYZ for the Rush fan bathroom?
Yeah I'm up for a ZZ fan bathroom as well !
As a fan of the XX I’m satisfied
You kids and your wacky time signatures
Or the torontonian in ur life!
My first thought as well!
I hope this isnt in a bar, because no way drunk me, will remember im XY
If sober me doesn’t know which is which then I’m glad I don’t drink!
I only remember due to the show Kyle XY
Person with Klinefelter syndrome: “So they are both for me?”
Me with Turner's Syndrome: *Takes an axe to the wall between the two bathrooms*
I think you just pee on the floor outside the two doors
You are intersex? I mean You've got the free entry ticket for both doors.
I mean it's either both or neither.
someone will care, if you look out of place. Sad reality of the world.
Then again, most will not care, but people tend to not be very vocal about the various things they don't care about
it depends on how vocal someone is feeling really. I dont know if OP is British or not, but sometimes you can get away with stuff in the UK, people wont like it, but they wont want to confront you.
Same in nearly any city people just… keep walking…
Well, living in a society will always involve tolerating some mild dislikes/discomforts, as people are all different.
Just like a lot of people stay quiet about things they kinda like, you could "get away" with a lot of positive stuff before someone would be bothered to compliment you..
sometimes it is more weird when people do compliment you, strangers more so
Nah fam, you got YXX
Safe to conclude that means tou can go to both XX and YX, because you have both combinations in your collection
You have XX and XY that's what's important
Neither. Shit on the floor in front of the door. Make a point.
For intersex people there’s a platform 9 3/4 style bathroom between the 2 doors
(Just kidding this set up is bullshit)
X puts legs togeter = Y
Take that !
i’d be doomed going there ‘cause i dunno which one’s which
XX is your average cis women, XY is your average cis men.
But it really makes no sense to base bathrooms on that, it's just stupid transphobic bullshit.
(Also the number of times I accidentally walked into the men's bathroom...)
Exactly. We assume that people have the chromosomes that usually align with the sex assigned at birth.
As the OP points out, for a small percent of the population that’s not true. Someone with XY and androgen insensitivity will be assigned female at birth and may never realize they have a Y chromosome.
Whichever one is cleaner
OMG IM INTERSEX TOO!!!!
I haven't ever met another intersex person! 😮😆
Also, agreed that sign is garbage.
hahaha then come over to r/intersex and get frustrated at all the "am i intersex" and "id like to make my oc intersex but ive done no research" posts with us lmao
I had a lot of severe medical abuse I tried to go on that sub and it has some horror stories that I'm not sure I can emotionally handle it but thank you for the offer 😁
Yeahhh, same here. I think I'll pass.
I tend to write sci fi and fantasy sk chromosome abnormality don’t really factor in, instead I just randomly have genders flip and the. Document how the world deals with the trans gender protagonist
Omg intersex squad! :0
Another intersex reporting in for the intersex squad (severe medical abuse included). (づ￣ ³￣)づ
It's always included, medical trauma and abuse is part of the ✨super fun intersex experience package!✨
Hi! Also intersex here; just wanted to join the party 🎉
Welcome to the thread! Have a cookie 🍪
Holy crap! There are even cookies!? I love this place.
There's *always* cookies :)
I didn't even see the signs at the top at the beginning, and was thinking you had to interpret the stripes on the door.
But the signs are so much worse!
The stripes omg-
"4 stripes for male and 1 for female."
Nah one stripe is definitely for the men, yk because we’re so manly we only need only man stripe instead of 4 womanly stripes, one stripe is for men
Oh no, you're absolutely correct! I apologize Mr. Strong Male Sir!😔
*Klinefelter enters the chat*
I failed biology in high school so this would be fun for me lmao
I failed biology at birth so this would be fun for me too.
you have to clip into the wall so you're halfway between both bathrooms
disclaimer: may result in entry to the backrooms
In the backrooms, nobody can hear or see you shit/piss... 😳
**Pulls down pants and shits in a flower pot**
Life hacks 101.
This is just fucking stupid. If I, a trans person, someone with XX who passes as male most of the time, were to go into the XY bathroom, what would they do? Sit me down, take a sample, and look at my chromies? Jesus
Ah hell nah they put the bathroom on the x axis
I’ll just pee in the hall, I never remember which is supposed to mean which 🤷♂️
They thought they were clever
They really did
If you are intersex then you get to choose the cleanest room for the win? Just check them both out and pick the nicest. . Seriously though- this makes the point clear. being intersex would be so difficult to be able to deal with the basics of public toilets among the rest of the misunderstandings life has. I can only hope that moving forward, there will be a whole lot less pointless gendered things.
I've never understood gendered toilets.
My toilet at home is used by everyone. No chromosome check required.
Why TF can't bogs everywhere be the same? I mean, I'm taking myself into my little cubicle to do the deed. If someone's trying to get all up in there with me, sure I have a problem- but the problem isn't what they look like or their gene scan, it's why are they tryna use the same potty as me? And if they aren't in the cubicle with me, what the heckin' hell is the problem and why do I care about their medical history or looks?
I just don't get it. Like, to the dang core, WHY is this a thing? (People suck, I know, I'm being dramatic for a point)
My favorite anecdote is a facilities person trying to come up with a “unisex” bathroom icon. A person icon next to a woman icon? 👫 A person icon that is wearing a half-pants, half-skirt?
A trans person suggested an icon with a toilet. 🚽
Oh no, you can't have that! People who need the facilities might be reminded that loos exist!
Let's have a weird man-woman hybrid instead.
Our icons would be so much less confusing if the “man” icon and the “person” icon weren’t the same.
Ain't that the truth
I always thought that we gendered bathrooms so people wouldn’t creep on the opposite sex… At home it is a private bathroom that you can generally lock so no one else can see you, in a stall there is usually a massive gap in multiple areas that people could use to invade your space even with the locked stall door
Why's it gotta be about the opposite sex? Most people (certain kinks aside) don't think people on the loo are hot and we have our bi, gay, lesbian, and assorted other identities representing in both bogs, so it's not like you can just say 'no one who wants to bang me will be in here'. And all identites produce creeps.
But that aside.
Enter fictional creep. Either the other pee-needing people about me would be all 'WTF are you doing there?' so the matter is solved, or I am alone and potentially about to be assaulted by a creep- who is going to follow me in there regardless of the little lady on the door if they believe I will be vulnerable in a space.
Not one person has been saved from a bathroom assault because it's not unisex. Ever. Maybe they have been dissuaded by there being other people around (would unisex not make that double likely?), but that's brothers/sisters looking out for each other. But the little sign on the door? No bad dude ever went 'hold up, that's the LADIES lav, I'll go find my victim somewhere else!'
It's a kinda appealing idea- greater saftey!- that falls apart the second you think about it. A single gender space preserves me from precisely b*gger all on the creeper and peeper scale. For that to work it literally relies on the pee police watching the lavvy door like a hawk and and I've yet to meet the lavvy police in person.
Locker rooms I do still get- you strip naked in them and naked is vulnerable and for most people without specific traumas knowing the bodies will look more or less like yours can help. A quick panty drop, in a stall, when you're probably hovering over that seat to start with? In a stall giving a lot of, if not 100% bulletproof, eye shielding? Not so much.
As I say, I've heard a million arguments for gendered bogs and not a one makes sense. This one is just hush-hush code for 'all men are bad and hurt women if poonani is even thought about' and that's gross. Most guys are good guys who'd behave perfectly humanly in a unisex loo, and those who aren't will find, attack, creep, or stalk regardless of a door sign.
Now we gotta know our chromosomes to pee
Me who’s dumb and doesn’t even know which is which 👁👄👁
If they want to cover all cases they need to have bathrooms for XXX,XXY,XYY and X0 to.
And what about people with mosaic genetics? More bathrooms!!!!
Wow,this is a good idea! Maybe we can make a building only with bathrooms!
Wasn't there like up to 5- or 6-chromosome conditions? That's a lotta bathrooms, if they make one for each combination!
Is the mens room door bigger?
Yep. Don't know why though.
Because of all the buff men who had to turn sideways to enter
this reminds me of the whale shark image of this
Love that image.
Are intersex people just supposed to take a shit in the hallway?
Power squat. Direct eye contact with all the staff and patronage.
Na just use xx, just cause you have 3 not two chromosomes means it’s just cut off, go for the closest match
I'm actually X0. So uh-
Ah in that case then you can use both, if they protest you just say “I’m xo so I thought I had options”
You know what, that sounds fair. If they're going to make it hard for me I'm just going to use whichever one is the cleanest.
“You your gonna be a dick I get to be an ass” it’s my personal philosophy
Whoever designed this deserves to have their chromosomes removed
I feel like the idea for using xx and xy for the gendered restrooms is kinda funny, problem being though that im pretty sure enough people aren’t educated enough to get it, hell, im not always sure even with relatively good education.
Uh no, not funny, it feels transphobic as fuck aha. Why go out of the way to make intersex and trans people unwelcome?
Actually, you got a point, i didn’t think of that :/
Heh I mean they might have been oblivious too.. but looks fishy 😅
Because they don't think about it like that. They're too busy trying to be cutesy with their bathroom markers.
Thoughtlessness is not "transphobic"
Well, if it was pure thoughtlessness, sure.
Yeah that was my whole point. I think/hope there is much more ignorance than actual phobia in the world
I really doubt they just weren’t thinking of trans people. This seems like the sort of thing ppl would do specifically to make trans people uncomfortable
I was just told at length that it makes no difference and that the intentions behind the action do not matter.
I find it baffling
Thoughtlessness can absolutely be transphobic if the focus is on how it impacts the trans person rather than on quantifying the thoughtless person's intent.
Imagine going through your life as the person people never thought about accommodating. Whatever their intent, you're still facing that struggle.
I did not say it _can't_ be transphobic. But if someone was clueless enough to not think of trans people at all, does that really make them transphobic? That seems like stretching of the "phobic" part. Transignorant would be more like it.
I was not downplaying anyone's struggle. _Obviously_
I mean, "transignorant" isn't a thing.
When a thing is harmful to trans people, the word we use for it is typically "transphobic" because the point is centering the trans person's experience of whatever happened, not the intent or feelings of the person doing harm.
If a substance is hydrophobic, it repels water. It doesn't fear or dislike water, it just affects its movement through the world. Transphobia is often used to describe someone fearing or disliking trans people, but rather than litigating the actor's intentions, I think it's actually a lot more useful to describe how something - intentional or not - affects trans people.
Phobic in chemistry is not synonymous with phobic in psychology, but fair enough. You think this is the most useful point of view.
And if we were to discuss the intent (or lack thereof) of the person causing the perceived harm? Can we call them ignorant if that happens to be the case?
I think perhaps part of the problem is that we are talking about different things. Based on what you've written, you seem to be seeing 'transphobic' as a label on the person and wish to replace it with 'ignorant.' My intention is to label the action rather than the person acting.
I can't know what a person's intent is in this kind of circumstance so I prefer not to speculate on it. The act of excluding trans people is transphobic whether or not the person had any conscious intent to do so. Whether the action was taken out of ignorance or malice, the impact on the trans person affected is the same.
No, I got all that. I'm not stupid.
I am genuinely interested in the linguistics of this, not least because I have to learn new meanings for words like "phobic". So... any action resulting in discomfort to a trans person is transphobic regardless of whether it was intentional or not.
Something about this is a bit weird to me. The idea that it doesn't make a difference if someone act out of malevolence or ignorance seems absurd. To begin with, one of those two is relatively easy to fix - the other is an actual hard problem. They're not similar at all.
I don't know where this language tweak goes. If someone says something that explicitly includes trans people but ignores, say, gay people, was that a homophobic act? What do we call someone who is afraid / hates trans people, now that "transphobic" pertains to the discomfort felt by trans people and not the perpetrators? Etc.
I think there are multifaceted ways to talk about all of these questions, but for me what it comes down to is who is at the centre of what we're talking about? Who are we focused on? I think focus needs to be on the marginalized people's perspectives and needs first, but talking about intent rather than impact puts the person doing harm at the centre of the discussion. Often that route leads to the marginalized person having to do a bunch of extra work to coddle the feelings of the person who hurt them, affirm they're not bad for not knowing better, etc. Failure to do so tends to put the marginalized person under criticism for being "mean" or overly demanding.
I also really want to emphasize that I think it's really important to label actions or choices as transphobic rather than people. An action is transphobic if it hurts trans people. The action does not have intent; the actor might, but that's not important if the focus is on the act and the harm it caused and how to fix it. (Not how to fix the person acting, but how to repair the harm caused by the action.)
As for your question about a homophobic act: a neutral action or choice that doesn't address gay people specifically isn't necessarily homophobic, but if it systemically disadvantages gay people as a class, it would be. It's about who is affected by a given action and how it makes it more difficult for them to participate in society.
We could still call someone transphobic if they show a pattern of harming or denigrating trans people; words can be used in multiple different ways. But I think "asshole" also does the job.
Trans are not unwelcome, they are still XX or XY. Intersex will have to choose.
You don't think it's "unwelcome" to make trans men use the women's bathroom? 🤨
Well fuck, I need to pee. I can't hold it long enough to get my genome sequenced first.
So are those bathrooms, wooden shelves, or…???
I keep forgetting which is which so id still go in the "wrong" one
Ngl, I wouldn't know which one to enter.
Ngl I’d laugh my ass off and send pics to my parents and tell them “LMAO WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO GO-“
- cis woman, discovered I had XY chromosomes in 2020
I would too lmao.
- Intersex woman, was told I had X0 chromosomes in my preteens/early teens.
In all fairness, there's really no way to tell for sure if you're xx, xy, or some other weird combination without having your DNA tested. Some people can have only an x or a y, and I'm sure there are other variations that exist because gender is NOT just about your chromosomes and there is so much more to gender than that, both in terms of biology, sociology, psychology, etc.
Welp haven’t got mine checked so I can’t be sure
Ok that's definitely transphobic cause they're saying "go in the one that matches your genetics"
Also there's no bathroom for people with Kleinfelter syndrome, or anything else involving an extra or missing X or Y chromosome.
Exactly. That includes me, I have X0 chromosomes.
Yep, it's very exclusionary of not only trans people but people like you as well.
Then obviously the answer is to power pee in the hall outside and between the two doors.
Or arson. That's the answer to everything. I mean, the doors are wood...
Step 1- First, pee into a bucket of bleach
Step 2- Then, leave your homegrown mustard gas bomb next to the fire extinguisher
Step 3- Now set the doors on fire
I really hope no one understands what this means and they have to ask the staff all the time which one is the bathroom they are supposed to go in, so that the owner understands how much of an idiot they are.
What is a intersex?
The Wikipedia answer is pretty lacking. Basically, biological sex exists on a messy spectrum rather than a binary.
Intersex people either have chromosomes that diverge from XX and XY or/and they have hormonal divergences that make them present different secondary sex characteristics.
It’s rare, but not terribly uncommon. It’s a subject that most people still don’t know a lot about. And people may be intersex and not know until they have reproductive issues.
There’s a good [NPR Podcast](https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/852195850/the-biology-of-sex) in which they explain that defining sex by chromosome is scientifically flawed and some people who are intersex talk about being intersex. I would highly, highly recommend giving it a listen before you try googling anything about intersex.
**Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies".Sex assignment at birth usually aligns with a child's anatomical sex and phenotype. The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%.**
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Jokes on you I don’t even remember which is which….
Steal the signs and melt them for scrap metal.
If you're intersex then, based on the signs, you're allowed in both! (Assuming you mean you're XXY)
They probably want you to go into the XY one though
These signs are stupid
Bruh I'd be so lost on where to enter, for real. I can see myself starting to google which sex is supposed to have which genes and then I'd ask myself "I never had my genes analyzed. Where do I go now?"
Can they not just point out "toilets to sit down" and "urinals"? Because, you know, I just heard of that but can't confirm, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE FUCKING SENSE. :(
Pick whichever you know will irritate the least amount of people then. Easy enough.
Probably the XX one then, I present pretty female.
Or the opposite, pissing snowflakes off is pretty funny
Take a wild guess then. It's really bad for you to hold it in.
Idiot here. What is an intersex person?
Genetics aren't always neatly consistent so an intersex person is someone who is born with different chromosomes than the typical XX or XY or could be XY androgen insensitive as they don't respond to certain hormones in development so develop opposite to that of their chromosomes. There are a number of variations that fall under the umbrella of intersex so it isn't the same for everyone.
There are instances where ambiguity occurs due to how we assess sex/gender at birth and the insistence of forcing them into one or the other category which can lead to multiple surgeries being done for little reason, especially when most aren't done to address a medical need such as urethral placemen/formation.
Your chromosomes determine your sex, not your gender. This is not gendered.
Your chromosomes don't necessarily determine your sex. Also, nobody likes a pedant.
But your gender socially determines which door you go in. They are conflating sex and gender, gendering chromosomes and thus, it fits the definition.
You are the one conflating two, not the bathroom.
Pointlessly sexed, then. It's the same concept.
You think public restrooms are pointlessly sexed?
Downvoted for asking your opinion... :/
I think there should always be a unisex restroom, of course. But I also think girls and women should also be allowed to pee without men around if they so choose
Sorry, I thought you were being provocative on purpose. My mistake.
I don't think we can change society in the blink of an eye, so not every bathroom should be gender neutral yet. I understand that a lot of women have traumas. Even so, bathrooms should be gendered, not sexed. If a transitioned trans man walks into the women's bathroom, that's way more uncomfortable for everyone than if he went to the men's bathroom. And trans women would straight up be in danger in the men's bathroom according to trauma-logic.
I do think that in an ideal world we wouldn't need gendered bathrooms at all. We all use gender neutral bathrooms every day in our homes. If we could trust eachother as much as most people can trust their families gender wouldn't be such a big issue in bathrooms. (Unless someone's kink is hearing other people pee or poop... Which I'm sure exists... But if we based everything on kinks no one would be allowed to go out in sandals without wearing socks.)
Well sure. In an ideal world almost everything would be very different
Irrelevant when the sub isn't called "r/pointlesslysexed"
That's sex, not gender. Doesn't belong in this subreddit.
It's based on your chromosomes. So XY women have to use the XY bathroom, X0 women, XXY and XYY men can't use any restrooms.
And another post that doesn't fit in this sub
it is a BATHROOM.
Figure it out?
you need to go back to middle school if you don't understand it.
XXX,XXY,XYY and X0
XXXX XXYY XXXXY
I can see how the first two -might- happen but if the majority of people only have two chromosomes(and those that have more than two are normally infertile) how does the third one happen because there's five 🤔
I saw the article, but it still doesn't really explain how exactly it happens
idk either, all i know is that it *does* happen
Yeah no I totally believe you, biology is weird enough that it could happen and honestly I'm not willing to say that things *don't* happen at this point. I was just curious about the specifics of *how* it happens given that(as I've already stated) most people only have two chromosomes and the people that have more than two are generally infertile so it would have to be extraordinarily rare for somebody with three chromosomes to not be infertile and then to *also* pass on all three of those chromosomes to their offspring along with both of the other parent's chromosomes being passed on as well.
TL:DR- Don't mind me, I'm just nerding out here
My chromosomes are X0. Explain that before telling me to go back to middle school.
you are intersex.. mind me asking some questions over dms? ive never met an intersex person and would like to know more about.. like.. what you are and such
sounds weird tbh is this appropriate
sorry for being weird.. i just wanna understand intersex people.. i get asked lots of daily questions as a transgender so i understand how it is but.. ugh im just making it weird.. tl:dr i just wanna know about how life is like as a intersex person..
I'm intersex and I'll talk to you if you want to know, but I block at the first sign of creepy.
yeah it is weird to DM a possible admin troll bot.
This isnt gendered. It’s sexed.
isn’t this more like pointlessly sexed? also i am afraid to know what happens in the XXX bathroom
It's semantics but yeah, pointlessly sexed.
hmmmmm I guess whichever one you identify with more? 😬
I don't know exactly which one is which so I'd probably get into the wrong one
Wich sex even is Wich, i can't remember
People with down syndrome would be confused as fuck
I can imagine me sweating nervously with a full blatter trying to remember which one was which before fumbling for my phone to look it up
You piss outside
I always forget which is which this would toture me especially if I'm in a hurry
Oh that's simple to fix, just use shadow clone jutsu to clone yourself and then go into both bathrooms at the same time
As a cis woman, I'd probably choose xy out of spite
I don't remember which is which even so it's just be me sweating profusely as I hold back my shit.
Just shit on the floor in front of the doors at that point. That's my solution.
This is reminding me of that time Kaiba Seto summoned XYZ Monster
me, an enby: I USE ALL THE BATHROOMS! OR PISS IN THE WOODS!
I'm fucking cis and I don't understand the assignment
Why do I need to know my chromosomes to pee? I'm not gonna have them tested just for this.
If you need a urinal you’ve got XY labelled room to use. I think that’s about it
Edited to specify that I was talking about the room, not saying intersex people have XY chromosomes
I mean I don't *need* a urinal, I can use a stall too.
This is dudes-who-need-to-shit erasure
Damn, since I never used an urinal ... guess I'm XX.
Thanks anon for the fastest gender affirmation surgery in the world!
Uh no lmao I said it in the context of an intersex person.
did you just argue with this person about what their chromosomes are...
Yes, yes they did.
No…lmao did everyone read it like that? I meant they’ve got the room marked XY that they can use, not that they’ve got those chromosomes
It’s a bathroom… of course it’s gendered
What gender is your bathroom at home assigned?
Go #1 in one bathroom and #2 in the other. Problem solved. You're so welcome!